Sorry kids, it's more political crap

[wednes]

Well first things first, here's this:
Copy this sentence into your livejournal if you're in a heterosexual marriage, and you don't want it "protected" by the bigots who think that gay marriage hurts it somehow.

Here's an interesting article that sudrin sent me while I was napping. It's well researched and deals with how more zombie movies are made when wars and stuff are going on. Take a look, if you like. It also has a list of every zombie movie to come out since 1910.

How disgusted am I that people on my very own friends list are making negative propaganda pics of Obama? And whining about how Boo Hoo Hoo so many people are Obama supporters but I'm not, can't I have Freedom of Speech too Whaaaa waaaa waaa! Of course you get freedom of speech. Feel free to speech on any damn thing you want, but don't be surprised when people who disagree want to speak back. I'll use my Freedom of Speech to assert that McCain supporters are either rich or incredibly easily taken in by pandering bullshit.

Honestly, I think everyone who honestly believes McCain and Palin will take care of them should go the fuck to Alaska or out west somewhere and let them run things. Let them send their own kids to fight in that stupid war, let them outsource all their damn jobs and ban Harry Potter books and abortion (while refusing to fund sex ed programs in public schools) and every other crazy thing. I'll take my chances with the "arab-muslim-terrorist loving-elitist with the crazy pastor" any damn day while McCain is calling women "cunts" and Palin is having herself protected from witches.

Disagree? Tell me all about it. I'm not afraid of dissenting opinions.
After all, Freedom of Speech was designed to encourage the free EXCHANGE of ideas, not just the rights of one babbling asshole, be they liberal or heartless ;-].

And finally, our heat is off. I don't know if we forgot to pay the bill or if it just plain doesn't work. It's pretty chilly in here though. I'm off to get a thermal shirt.

Comments

[klynnfrost.livejournal.com]

Yeah - there are enough true arguments to be made without having to resort to to propaganda.

[madush69.livejournal.com]

It was more just a cheesy captioned photo. Right wing political humor if you will. There's alot of political humor out there now-a-days. That was one i made myself.

[wednes.livejournal.com]

Ha!

There are certainly goods and bads on both sides. I'm way far down with Obama though...

I don't think McCain/Palin will take care of me. I take care of me.

[madush69.livejournal.com]

See that is the difference. Obama supporters want the government to "take care of them."

Where did this idea come from that the government is responsible for my personal satisfaction in life? The Constitution gives me the right to "pursue" happiness, nothing more. It doesn't give anyone the right to anybody else's stuff.
Where did this idea come from that the government is supposed to provide me with my health care or my inalienable rights?

The last I checked, the government's responsibility is to stay out of the way and let me live MY life. It should maintain laws that protect human life (including the unborn), but it shouldn't mess with people's lives...unless they're trying to rob somebody, kill them, or do some other crime.

I'm supposed to have the freedom to be as successful as I choose to be without limitations from the government on my income.
I don't want to finally get that $250,000 a year job working on some big radio station or network, and have the government tell me I need to give a disproportionale percentage away.
So many people look to the government for things they need. We are a more than capable people, we are determined, we are strong-willed. We can build and create what we want and need. Obama is tossing around the word change more than seagulls drop crap on the beach. I suggest that if we want change, we start looking at ourselves and make the necessary changes as individuals first. After we stop being so dependent on the government to take care of us and hold our hands, we'll truly have the ability to see what must change at the local, state, and federal levels of government. Obama and his ilk don't give handouts because they care. They give handouts to keep the poor dependant on them.

I forget who said it, but I heard someone once say something along the lines of "the Republicans help the wealthy to keep them wealthy."
The same thing is true for the Dems...they take care of the poor to keep them poor.

Again. I am as sick of Bush as the next person, but Obama just isn't good for the country.

Re: I don't think McCain/Palin will take care of me. I take care of me.

[wednes.livejournal.com]

Dude, you have been watching WAY too much FOX news.

Re: I don't think McCain/Palin will take care of me. I take care of me.

[madush69.livejournal.com]

I never ever watch any kind of national news on TV. I hate having to think about that stuff. At home Cathy and I watch fun stuff.
I hate watching political stuff on TV.
I've come to my conclusions by reading things, and by listening to the radio...but I have leeaned to the right since I was ten.
I didn't know much at ten, but I sensed something about Reagan that made me like him. By '84, I was reading Time, Newsweek, and the newspapers so i could debate with my friend Dale. (I saw him at my H.S. reunion, and he's doing well.)
Dale and i would talk about the election in '88 as well.
I voted for Daddy Bush, who was okay, but I got dissatisfied with him when he closed down air force bases, so in '92 I voted for Perot. That was a wasted vote. i didn't vote for Perot in '96, instead going with Bob Dole. In 2000, there was no way I was going to even consider Al Gore. I would certainly have preferred McCain over Bush Jr. that year, and on the left, I liked some of the things Dick Gephardt said early on, but he wasn't a serious contender.
In 2004 I again voted Bush Jr. but regretted it quite quickly. i called a talk show that was on the radio one time when they were taking calls from people who wished they hadn't voted for W.
I don't think McCain will be as stupid as George W. I think he'll be strong. This election means a great deal. We can't let the "feel good" stuff make us vote for Barack, just because he says the things people want to hear.
Since the beginning of my research in this election, you have actually helped me quite a bit. Like Katie mentioned, there are folks who say they won't vote for Barack because he's a Muslim."
I have looked into it enough now to know that not all Muslims would be a bad candidate. Barack's faith is still up in the air. Who knows what is in his heart? I'd prefer a good solid agnostic like myself...Someone who admits to not knowing if there is any kind of god at all.
I don't care what the color of his skin is. I think many uninformed black people are going to give him their votes just because of his skin color, and I don't think Dr. King would like that. I'm really trying to focus on the content of his character, and that's wwhy he frightens me.
Frances Rice, the head of the Sarasota-based National Black Republican Association, says "What Senator Barack Obama has done is historic." But she says his stance on abortion puts him out of the American mainstream. She also says "He does not share our values; he's a far left-wing radical."
It's that radical left wing stuff that sets me off. Don't mess with my country, and don't disrespect my Constitution. I don't have the faith in him that he would give two shits about the Constitution.
Who will he appoint to the Supreme court if elected? I don't even want to think about the ramifications.
I would like to see some liberal ideas move forward though. For one, I believe that gay people should have just as much right to marry as anyone else.
I've put more thought into this election than I have into any of the others, and I read alot during each of them as well.
I appreciate being able to debate these things with you. Political discussion is healthy and exciting. You are a wonderful person to go back and forth with. No matter who wins, we should go to lunch or dinner sometime after the election. Maybe Cathy, Ben, you, H. & I can go to La Shish.

Fallacies.

[klynnfrost.livejournal.com]

The Constitution is what challenged divine rule and birthed democracy – which allows for debate and dissent. It established a system that could fluctuate with the times but that would always include checks and balances, such as allowing for a two party system, that would seek to prevent anyone too extreme from getting too much power.

No one is arguing that the government is responsible for your personal satisfaction in life, but the Constitution does a hell of a lot more than guarantee the right to pursue happiness. The notion of inalienable rights was birthed with the idea that by being a human you have a right to your life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness…as opposed to those rights only belonging to the wealthy or “divine.” Equal rights for all.

The government’s responsibilities are to represent, enforce, and serve the public. To what extent? That’s what the checks and balances are for.

I find it interesting that you bring up the income you hope to achieve rather than the one you have. Yet either way you slice it – policies are going to go after the extremes – the widening disparities. It would give less to those at the top (which are far above your $250,000 dream income) and do more for those at the bottom (to which I’m sure you and I both are closer too).

The most significant comfort I find in Obama is that at least his track record and philosophy support that he constantly seeks the compromise…..the middle ground. I simply can’t wrap my brain around why that “scares” anyone.

As far as the government providing a helping hand – all I have to say is if it’s alright for the government to intervene and bailout companies than it should do so with the people in mind as well. Help both or help neither…..personally it seems that both would be more beneficial to everyone if done properly.

Re: Fallacies.

[madush69.livejournal.com]

I don't think the government should have bailed out those companies. That's not what capitalism is about. The bailout is not cool at all. Success or failure should be determined by the market.

Re: I don't think McCain/Palin will take care of me. I take care of me.

[leemoyer.livejournal.com]

"I don't want to finally get that $250,000 a year job working on some big radio station or network, and have the government tell me I need to give a disproportionale percentage away."

Yeah. You sure would miss that extra 1500 smackers at that point wouldn't you? What a silly concept. "Oooh, we can cut taxes on the wealthiest ANY time, but for God's sake, let's NEVER raise them. After all, how will they afford to hire tax cheats to shield all their earnings for taxes then? I'd strongly sggest looking into ms Palin's house, Mr McCain's free cable, and the like if you really care about the rich and making sure they are not over-taxed. Poor poor things.

And in the meantime, you can pay off the Wall Street greed merchants and the Whitewaters and the oil companies.

"Obama just isn't good for the country."

I always think that "libertarians" in the great depression must have been like Christian Scientists with appendicitis.
I hope the next years will benefit you too. If they do, I somehow suspect you'll continue to abhor the very government that will save your bacon.

As Wednes so beautifully states: "I'll use my Freedom of Speech to assert that McCain supporters are either rich or incredibly easily taken in by pandering bullshit." Word.

Re: I don't think McCain/Palin will take care of me. I take care of me.

[madush69.livejournal.com]

If I find the Obama administration to my likeing, I will be the first "righty" to vote for him. So many of my vies lean left, that my wife calls me a liberal who just doesn't know it yet. If Obama gets in and proves himself to me, I will have no problem supporting a re-election run.

Re: I don't think McCain/Palin will take care of me. I take care of me.

[uterdic.livejournal.com]

This argument is already past this point, but I have to clarify something.

Some Obama supporters want the government to take care of them. However, most of us want the government to help those in need. I, in no way support welfare or affirmative action, but if someone is in trouble, I would want my tax dollars to help them so they can get back into society and then be a productive part of it. Americans are so selfish and greedy that these concepts have been ruined over the years. The abuse of the system needs to change and as I mentioned in your post, the free market will no longer allow the choice to happen.

Conservatives are just as bad. They don't want the government interfering so they can continue to gouge the American Public. Prevent smaller and better companies from succeeding and forcing competition out of business rather than letting the market decide. They abuse the system, profit only for themselves and make no effort to better society, and are willing to "take out" anyone who steps in their way. They exploit the system making sure they do not have to pay taxes and as a result we all have to pay for them.

The same arguments absolutely go both ways.

I lost my faith in the republican party when I learned that the group that doesn't want the government in control wants to control the choices you make. In my opinion, a fetus is a parasite until it can survive on its own. Besides, it's the choice that is important. The vast majority of people would choose to have a baby, but for government regulations and them stepping in to say you cannot choose what is best for yourself is insane. I was very conservative before that moment, and I believe on fundamental levels these are totally backwards. Liberals should be concerned about the unborn ("what about the children?") and conservatives should do what's best for them. However this also showed me how the religious right had taken over that party and I could no longer support that.

Re: I don't think McCain/Palin will take care of me. I take care of me.

[wednes.livejournal.com]

Um...YEAH!

Re: I don't think McCain/Palin will take care of me. I take care of me.

[maxverbosity.livejournal.com]

"See that is the difference. Obama supporters want the government to "take care of them." " - madush

As someone who has a very good-paying job, and a rabid liberal, I resent that somewhat. I do fairly well for myself and my family.

"Where did this idea come from that the government is responsible for my personal satisfaction in life? The Constitution gives me the right to "pursue" happiness, nothing more. It doesn't give anyone the right to anybody else's stuff.
Where did this idea come from that the government is supposed to provide me with my health care or my inalienable rights?" - madush

THe government should be able to specify your "inalienable rights", no? There is the Bill Of Rights, for startes, plus several amendments to the Constitution, and then, legal precedent. As for health care, I wrote a paper and did presentations on how government-sponsored plans are entirely feasible in the United States. It IS possible - that's the key.

"The last I checked, the government's responsibility is to stay out of the way and let me live MY life. It should maintain laws that protect human life (including the unborn), but it shouldn't mess with people's lives...unless they're trying to rob somebody, kill them, or do some other crime." - madush

Yeah, well, one thing that SHOULD be left up to individuals is the status of the unborn, as you call say. Like I tell people, the pro-life stance is, at its heart, mysogynistic. As for it staying out of your life, you're welcome to this libertarian view, but needless to say, there is considerable benefit to having a government which is also an agent of its people.

"I'm supposed to have the freedom to be as successful as I choose to be without limitations from the government on my income." - madush

Not according to the sixteenth amendment. I am not sure whether you're railing against progressive taxation or not, however.

"I don't want to finally get that $250,000 a year job working on some big radio station or network, and have the government tell me I need to give a disproportionale percentage away." - madush

The cap on rates will likely not jump significantly from 36.9% in the end, so it wouldn't be so bad really. Even McCain once said that those who make more should feel at ease paying more. That was in 2000, however.

"So many people look to the government for things they need. We are a more than capable people, we are determined, we are strong-willed. We can build and create what we want and need." - madush

Yeah, we can, but it isn't enough, is it? The same people who say this are the same people who have capped innovation and let businesses around the country become essentially non-competitive.

"Obama is tossing around the word change more than seagulls drop crap on the beach. I suggest that if we want change, we start looking at ourselves and make the necessary changes as individuals first. After we stop being so dependent on the government to take care of us and hold our hands, we'll truly have the ability to see what must change at the local, state, and federal levels of government. Obama and his ilk don't give handouts because they care. They give handouts to keep the poor dependant on them." - madush

My god, are you channeling the Constitution Party (available only in Montana)?

[katie-can-draw.livejournal.com]

hells to the yeah!

i'm SO SICK of uninformed, misinformed, idiotic bullshit that people can't back up because they're too busy listening to FOX news to research the facts themselves. the internet is just pissing me off, i might stay away until november 5th.

i'm sick of people being gullible as fuck. there are so many falsities floating around obama that are started by (pardon the trendy term) "haters". it's bull. i STILL CAN'T BELIEVE there are people who say that they won't vote for him because he's a muslim. wtf?

also, i overheard my own neighbor telling a man going door-to-door for obama that he "would never vote for that negro". FUCK. THAT.

... i'm gonna' stop. this whole thing gets me so frickin' fired up.

[wednes.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm pretty amped about politics this year. I kind of wish I could relax, but it makes me too damn mad. It's just too important for people to be fucking around being stupid.

[klynnfrost.livejournal.com]

Amen.

[diachrony.livejournal.com]

Gosh, I kinda wish I hadn't read your comments thread because ... FLAMES! FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE!!

;-)

::breathes::

Why doesn't anyone, anywhere, seem to have a pro-McCain/Palin (or anti-Obama) argument that actually MAKES SENSE? Where I could say "yeah, I can respect your opinion but still fully disagree." Nope, they come up with total B.S. that I can not respect in the slightest. Bah.

Also, WORD on the whole WATB boohooing about freedom of speech. Of *course* the right-wing has freedom of speech - what they do not have is the right to expect others to agree with them, to not voice dissenting opinions, to not have a negative reaction. And that seems to really frost certain peoples' shorts. Seriously, liberals/progressives are used to being shit on for having a difference of opinion - we've had eight years of it. I would say it's high time for the Right to deal with the fact they don't get to expect others to either agree with them or shut up.

I'm just going to blow it off and let my blood settle back down. However, Wednes, you might like to read these articles (and possibly share them):

Like, Socialism
"[Sarah Palin] is, at the very least, a fellow-traveller of what might be called socialism with an Alaskan face. The state that she governs has no income or sales tax. Instead, it imposes huge levies on the oil companies that lease its oil fields. The proceeds finance the government’s activities and enable it to issue a four-figure annual check to every man, woman, and child in the state. One of the reasons Palin has been a popular governor is that she added an extra twelve hundred dollars to this year’s check, bringing the per-person total to $3,269. A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist—Philip Gourevitch, of this magazine—that “we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.” Perhaps there is some meaningful distinction between spreading the wealth and sharing it (“collectively,” no less), but finding it would require the analytic skills of Karl the Marxist."

AND

A Conservative For Obama
"Obama offers [...] a deeply conservative view of the world. Nobody can read Obama’s books [...] or listen to him speak without realizing that this is a thoughtful, pragmatic, and prudent man. It gives me comfort just to think that after eight years of George W. Bush we will have a president who has actually read the Federalist Papers.
Most important, Obama will be a realist. [...] As a stance, as a way of making judgments in a complex and difficult world, I believe [conservatism] is very much alive in the instincts and predispositions of a liberal named Barack Obama."

[diachrony.livejournal.com]

And there is this:

Libertarians For Obama

[madush69.livejournal.com]

Excellent. I need these kinds of discussions.
They are good for the mind.

[wednes.livejournal.com]

Thanks man. Good stuff!

[purplecat-a2.livejournal.com]

Plus, he can pronounce NUCLEAR

[maxverbosity.livejournal.com]

My current favorite is people who blast Obama's shunning of public financing, thereby removing the cap on his ability to raise and spend money, and then when he gets $150 million in one month, his opponent derides this as "showy". LOL

Even last night at work, I guess my wife was in the lunchroom with someone whose only comment on Obama's wonderful infomercial was, "How much did THAT cost?". Honestly, if all you've got left as an argument against Obama is that he's a phenomenal fundraiser, then maybe it IS over in the minds of even conservatives.

[wednes.livejournal.com]

lol

Too true.

Is it true? McCain linked to Bill Ayers?

[klynnfrost.livejournal.com]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgmEA_3jK2s

Re: Is it true? McCain linked to Bill Ayers?

[wednes.livejournal.com]

Oh Em Gee, that was awesome!