wednes | Jimmy: Your jewish friend, or just your friend?

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Jimmy: Your jewish friend, or just your friend?

I've been sick for three days now. It's kind of a drag and is adversely affecting my sleep, even with the sleeping pills. Mostly, it's just a terrible cough with a bit of snifle thrown in for fun. Right now I'm drinking more tea and watching the parade. I always enjoy the T-give parade, especially now that they've stopped putting Indians in it. Given our history with native american peoples, it takes a lot of gall to pretend the Indians are down with us and what we did. I seem to be sick on my birthday a LOT, and since it's tomorrow, I imagine I'll be sick again.
Also, I'll officially be closer to 40 than to 30. Fie!

Plus, I can't get high because I am sick. Fie again!

The following is based on MY opinion, feel free to disagree.
I wasn't going to comment on this Michael Richards business, but since I was asked to, I will. Kids, we don't know Michael Richards. Kramer is not really our wacky neighbor. Sad, but true. That is probably why you have not yet run out of cereal. I've heard a few people try to dimiss his outburst because he was "angry." I think that's crap. I have been known to curse when I'm angry, but cursing and racial slurs, while both have their ugliness, are far and away NOT the same thing.
What did he say? He called some people by racial slurs (I daresay that white people may not have the best compass for determining how much these slurs affect a person. You could call me honkey or cracker all day long and it doesn't conjure images of the KKK or people coming to burn down my house) He said "that's what you get when you interrupt the white man." I defy someone to explain to me how that isn't racist.
Let me ask you all something, is there anything that could make you so angry that you would shout Nigger at someone? If so, than you are going to have a tough time explaining that you are not prejudiced. Why? Because if you beleive someone's ethnicity is an insult, that is the core of what rascism is. I don't beleive racism is about "the man" keeping people down, at least not anymore. But we're still responsible for the things we say. And like it or not, famous people are held to higher scrutiny than people no one knows.
I suspect that people who want to "give him a break" don't fully appreciate how hurtful and destructive such attitudes are. If someone ever called H that in my presense, they'd probably need surgery to fully remove my boot from their ass.
Then again, I am fortunate not to be a victim of racial discrimination that I know of. (some would argue that only white people can be racist because of institutionality and soforth--I will not be entertaining any arguments on that topic in this post, as I think it's utter bullshit) I am lucky to live in a fairly progressive community, unlike the faux liberal one I grew up in. Matter of fact, my own parents aren't coming to my wedding because (among other things) they are too racist to accept my fiance. Can you beleive that shit?

I will NOT, however, be doing the six things meme again.
So you can all stop tagging me!

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Mostly agree. I think there's still more institutional racism than we'd like to admit. Look at the voting troubles that tend to affect people of color more than they affect white people. Also, how felons lose their right to vote permanently, and because of our legal system, most of those felons are Black. I find that not coincidental at all. Of course, there's the other matter of class that's a part of this, too.

As far as what people yell when they're angry, though. I think that's when you see the real person, when the walls come down like that. If you're calling someone racial slurs and saying shit like what Richards and Gibson or Allen said, you're racist. It's pretty simple.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to imply that there is not institutional racism. I'm sure there is. But I've heard people use that fact to argue that minorities can't be racist because you can't oppress upward and racism requires oppression. I don't buy it. Prejudice based on race is racism in my opnion.

Your voting points are both valid and infuriating. Economic factors also play a part here, but minorites tend toward making less money, so it's all one.

*nods* Yeah, I've heard that argument, too, and I don't buy it either. Minorities can certainly be racist or sexist or heterophobic. The results just aren't necessarily as horrific as institutional prejudice can be.

Indeed, it's all intertwined. And anytime us poor people bring it up, we're accused of starting a class war by the rich. Um, guys, you started it. We're just trying to survive it.

See, THIS gal knows what I'm talking about!

*grins and bows*

I'm sorry that you're experiencing racism in your own family...I wish your parents could be more supportive of you and your relationship...

Thank you. It's been so long that I largely feel it's their loss. Still, it would be fun to have a mom helping with the wedding stuff. Besides, there are a few more issues there than just H. That's just the thing that sealed the deal. ;-/

Beautifully said.
May I quote you on my site. I think the discussion of hate and racial epithets are very good words for a Thanksgiving.

Sure thing, man. Quote away!

Thanks.

Always nice to see people who I agree with but who've thought things things through a step further than I have.

And then nice to share. THat's what Thanksgiving should be ~ sharing!

Happy Thanksgiving, and I hope you get well soon.

Right on!

Yeah...I could do with the return of good health!

Gesundheit!

I said that after my Mom coughed the other day and she looked at me sideways and said "I coughed." But she meant "You chowderhead, I didn't sneeze)".
I replied "You sure did. It means 'Health' and is just as applicable to coughing as sneezing."

Salud!

I guess the point I was trying to make yesterday was just that I think often times we try and believe that we live in a society where these things aren't a problem and the first time someone does something racist we act like they alone are some kind of "worst person in the world" because they could DO SUCH A THING. While I don't find what Michael Richards did something to be celebrated the problem with the way its presented is that we ARE only seening the "Freak out" portion of the video. When the two hecklers show up on CNN as News it seems like its gone too far. If you pet the bear and the bear bites you, do you interview the person petting the bear? And while you are not a victim of racial discrimination, I think we both have been victims of "weight discrimination". Its a popular sort of discrimination that seems to lack a victim because unlike black people we can just lose weight to "fix the problem". What I'm getting at is a sort of "Sweep it under the carpet" attitude that exists until someone is caught being a racist and then all hell breaks loose. My parents still lock the doors when they go into Downtown Detroit. One could argue that THAT is a form of racism because they don't similarly lock the doors when they go to Downtown Nashville. I don't however, consider my parents to be racists. Similarly, the attitudes the country has towards homosexuals getting married it also a form of racism.. or perhaps genderism that is accepted as "okay" because that sort of discrimination somehow has "Morality" on its side. In closing I guess what I'm saying is not that Michael Richards should get a pass, but that we should face the realities about racism and try and solve the problem instead of requiring that he do some kind of media tour that involves talking to "civil rights leaders" or other nonsense to do some sort of "penance" until he is cleansed of racism and REBORN a non-racist.

It does seem to be that the only time the media discusses racism is after an outburst like this. I'm so glad I can read and participate in intelligent discussions. Thank you Livejournal. I can lear more here than I ever could reading the paper or watching the "evening news."

The thing to keep in mind is that the news is a business, not a public service announcment. They are there to get your attention and make some money (see my argument that news shouldn't be allowed to have commercials) rather than actually educate you or give non-biased news. Sad but true.

You may recall my big gay marriage post a while back? I quoted a woman who said the difference between interracial marriage and gay marriage is that "being black is not a sin." Nuff said, eh?

I think in many ways, we all have prejudices and don't disprove every stereotype that comes our way. Your mom's door locking preferences sound more economy based than racial. I've been robbed in Detroit, but I've never been robbed in Ann Arbor even though I've worked at the homeless shelter. Does it mean one city is safer than the other, or that the poor people are more moral? I doubt it, it's more luck than anything.

You points about public outcry are certainly valid. People seem more affected by that than by simple truths. Like homosexuality, we are most offended by racism from someone like "Kramer" because we love Kramer. We dont' want him to be racist, any more than we wanted Luke Skywalker to be gay, but there it is.

A great post. I arrived here via Lee Moyer and would like to stick around, if that's ok - so I friended you.

Happy T-Day!

Totally cool. Welcome!

Hey, leemoyer's SO here. As regards institutional racism: I think that it isn't not just racism. The Man wants to keep everyone down and keep everyone's paws off *his* stuff (which is everything from money to government to children). Of course, few people of color have made it to any The Man status, so they are easily identified as out group to be supressed by appearance. Bad and hateful. But then there is everything and everyone else, and the further from the man own group (or group he pretends to), the more easily a person can be ismed. Female? Out. Gay? Out? Poor? Out.

I think classism is possibly the greatest and most pervasive ism going. On the one hand, we are all comfortable with folks who are from a familiar spectrum, who communicate like we do. on the other hand, hello, you can't keep it all for yourself. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. money equals power, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The longer society goes on, the more entrenched so many things tend to get.

So many people really talk deep shit in our society, be it the isms, the reality of relationships, etc. Communication is one thing we can all do to try and keep this snowball from destroying the village completely.

And it is not just about maintaining the oh-so-despised welfare state/hand out of The Man's money to People He Hates, the truth is historically, societies who took care of all their people prospered and thrived best for longest. That's the part that kills me in the end. Sucking is bad enough, but come on, do you have to suck so badly you dmamage everything for yourself and your oft spoke of yet actually ignored/abused children? Where,at the very least, is the actual enlightened self interest, as opposed to greedy can't see beyond my pocket interest? Jeez.

Obama in 08! Yeah. Find inspiration and follow it. Screw fear. Happy Tanksgiving.

*waves*

I certainly agree that classism is the larger issue. The whole "there's a difference between a black person and a nigger" basically means we don't hate ALL blacks, just the poor ones who might rob us or probably sell crack.

I think that's why I'm so irritated by these Guess Who style comedy of manners movies. They could be making valid statements about race and class relations and really get people talking--but they don't even try.

Don't even get me started on welfare. I have never been treated so badly as working my way through the FIA in Michigan to get disaibility. Even grocery clerks feel like they have a right to ask why I get disability. One even said I "looked just fine" to them. I had no idea people with medical degrees worked as Kroger casheirs. ;-/

Im sorry you are ill, and close to your birthday..that is "fie"!!!

I think richards is sorry he got in trouble, but not sorry for the things he said..I mean if he was..he would not have said those things. I try to explain this 'sorry' business to my kids. I want them to know that you just can say, "sorry" and everything will be okay..that you have to make amends. Richards on tv saying he is sorry is meaningless, same with gibson, etc. Some things you just cant take back!

Youre wedding will be fantastic withough your family. (hell, I didnt particularly want any family at my wedding..but only cos they pretended to approve of me getting married)

Exactly. He meant it, so he's only apologizing to save face. More like when Bush called that reporter an asshole. He said "I'm sorry you had to hear that" rather than "I'm sorry I said it."
That was the last time i had respect for Bush.

Even being sick and having no fam for the wedding, I feel quite happy, lucky, and blessed to have so many wonderful people around me (both in RL and online). Despite my cough, I have very little to complain about.

Let me ask you all something, is there anything that could make you so angry that you would shout Nigger at someone? If so, than you are going to have a tough time explaining that you are not prejudiced. Why? Because if you beleive someone's ethnicity is an insult, that is the core of what racism is.

This is such a great point.

I've never forgotten that years ago I had a terrible time trying to get this point across to a friend. Her parents were very racist, but the kind who always said things like "Some of my best friends are Black" to excuse themselves. She grew up with her father making racial slurs in front of her whenever he'd see a black person on the TV, and acting like he was just kidding around. She told me she wasn't allowed to have a poster on her wall of a black celebrity ... because of the race. I was shocked, 'cause to me this was like someone babbling a nonsense language in front of me - I'd never even conceived of such an attitude.

I didn't have any of that in my house. I grew up without race being discussed and so as a kid I just assumed it was the same sort of thing as people having different hair color ... a non-issue. (Of course when I got older I started learning about racism from outside sources, and it shocked me. I was so naive.)

Anyway, some years back, we got into a discussion where my friend claimed that *everyone* was racist ... EVERYONE. And to back this up, she used the example of people getting pissed off in traffic and cursing at other drivers and how if the other driver was black, they'd use the n-word ... etc. But I pointed out to her not everyone does that. In my family, it's never come up. A muttered "Moron" and "Idiot" and a subtle middle-finger flash to vent at an asshole driver, yes, but a racial or ethnic slur doesn't even occur to us.

She didn't believe me. She simply could not grasp the concept that maybe there are people out there to whom a racial or ethnic slur doesn't even occur to them, even when they're really effing pissed off. That doesn't exist in her world ... where everyone is racist at bottom, no matter how they may appear on the surface.

(Of course she believes blacks are prejudiced against whites, as well.)

I think her example was a resounding failure, but she still doesn't believe that people won't go for the ethnic slurs if they're mad enough.

She's WRONG.

Anyway ... I'm sorry your parents won't accept H. That sucks!

I hope you're having a pleasant Ritual Sacrifice Day. :)

The 'everyone is racist' argument is a tricky one simply because it's impossible to always discount every stereotype. If you assume asians are good at math, it is racist even if you know 20 asian kids aceing calculus? The important thing is that we're thinking about it and striving for universal acceptance.

Your friend sounds sadly typical. My parents racism was more private, they were insulted at being called racist, but openly insulted blacks, gays, jews, latinos, basically anyone who wasn't a WASP. But they are highly dysfunctional in other ways, so it's a big miserable package I'd just as soon avoid.
My family doesn't really deserve to meet H, and H certainly doesn't deserve to be subjected to them.

I agree, sadly Mikey isn't my whacky neighbor and now, hopefully, he never will be. It's disgusting and repulsive and i'm glad his career went down the toilet that night.

I left you something over at Myspace...but i've come over here as well to say HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! hugs.

Thanks, man.

LOL Unbirthday...

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Jimmy: Your jewish friend, or just your friend?

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