wednes: (Default)
wednes ([personal profile] wednes) wrote2004-02-04 12:50 pm

Hey!

If you're some guy, and you're thinking of knocking on my door at 11 o'clock in the morning with the hopes of someone answering it...

Let me urge you to rethink that.




Sometimes it's nicer than i let on to have a big sounding and big barking dog lurking around.

And while we're on the subject of animals, let me tell you all something. I should really be posting this in [livejournal.com profile] kittypix but I hear those people are maniacs!

Cats do not love us, no matter how much we may love them. I did a series on this a few months back, but can't be bothered to dig it up for you. I just laugh because I adore my cats, and think of them as my "children", yet people project emotions onto my cats that simply don't exist. Example:

Cat jumps up on persons lap. Person says "oh, your cat must LIKE me"
No, the cats likes to be petted, and has noticed that you have arms.

Cat rubs face against person. Person says "oh, your cat is so affectionate and freindly with me"
Look, now the cat is being affectionate and freindly to the shelf, now the sock...etc.

Let me just remind everyone that cats ahve been known to kill babies. And if you die with your cats in the apartment, they will eat you. As much as I am annoyed by most dogs, dog will not eat you, they will keep strangers from touching you for as long as they can.

Should animals be treated as well as people? Whenever possible.
Are they really "equal" to people? I have to say no.

[identity profile] ex-jenniepan481.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 10:14 am (UTC)(link)
Uhh I always thought it was an urban legend that cats killed babies. I know they would eat a person if they died..but for me that would be a cool way to go.

I am bad with the whole "projecting feelings on animals"I do that with all my pets...my pets must think I am nuts.

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 03:41 pm (UTC)(link)
My grandmother's cat tried to suffocate me as a baby, as a result i hated cats well into my college years.

I got over it when i embraced paganism though.

[identity profile] ex-jenniepan481.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 04:23 pm (UTC)(link)
holy crap! You are living proof that a common urban legend I have always been told isnt true, that babies can be suffocated by a cat.

I and I am sure others are glad your werent suffocated!!!

Horay for paganism!

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 06:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Yep...

And Hooray for Bast!

[identity profile] ex-jenniepan481.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 07:14 pm (UTC)(link)
yes she is one of my favorites!

*chuckles*

[identity profile] savidge.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 10:58 am (UTC)(link)
As an owner of four cats, I find this post quite amusing.
My friend Boris the cat will talk to me for 10 minutes & beg like a dog.
So, from what you're saying, that's attention, not affection.
I'm not so sure, I mean, you can construe such actions as love.
To us it's attention, but maybe in thier little heads, it's affection.

And, I just can't believe that my cats would eat me if I died.
Case in point..
I had a friend who passed away, and remained undiscovered for a couple days.
Her cat was so traumatized that he couldn't be moved from under the bed.
There was no post-mordem munching that I know of.

Re: *chuckles*

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 03:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, I'm sure that's only if they're out of thier regular food...

Re: *chuckles*

[identity profile] savidge.livejournal.com 2004-02-05 10:40 am (UTC)(link)
*spit-take*

[identity profile] skryche.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 11:07 am (UTC)(link)
I dunno. I don't buy the idea that no cats love their owners. But, then, I've been known to project emotions on rock formations, so what do I know?

As far as equality, I don't know how anyone could answer yes to your question. You (and many people) use the word "equal" in a way I can't quite grasp.

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 03:45 pm (UTC)(link)
I would assert that cats are not capable of love. I do think it is a normal and natural thing for us to want our cats to love us...I do it too.

[identity profile] princezna.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 11:09 am (UTC)(link)
You should write a pop-up book about cats.

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 03:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Ha.

I should.

[identity profile] darkeryet.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 12:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Personally I've never known anyone who knows anyone who knows anyone who knows anyone who's known a cat that has killed a baby. I have come across the old wives tales a countless times tho. ;-)
(http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/catsuck.htm)

I hate when people don't let their cats be cats and assume them to think like humans. For example, I saw someone on LJ vent about her 'evil' cat who kept running around by night making noise and waking their baby up. This idiot had tried to tell the cat, verbally, that it was very very evil and when the cat didn't stop its nightly activities that kept waking the baby up she decided to lock it out of the house every night. The cat basically howled behind the front door all night every night after that which annoyed her too and then she decided to have it put to sleep. Not surprisingly this idiot of a woman was also fluffy bunny wiccan and believed in the familiar thing. Like, you can just talk to your cat and it understands as well as a human does but there's an added bonus of having it help you with your magick. *rolls eyes*

When a cat rubs itself against your leg the way it rubs itself against furniture and you think it's affection you're uninformed in the subject of feline behaviour. But if you mistake the way a coon snuggles, pets and hugs its human as the same thing as marking a stranger that's pretty laughable too. Around Xmas I saw a tv programme where a few animal behaviour experts were discussing animal rights. One of them trained animals for movies and commercials, one was a philophist and one some sorta scientist (dunno what they're called in English =)). All of them believed that cats experience sorrow, affection etc and all of them had research to present about it. I dunno how one could not believe when they witness a cat turn apathetic, lose appetite and die within two months after their human passes away, for example. [when everything else is good, just the one person from their life is missing]

Of course one can ponder what kind of emotions animals have exactly and how, say, a cat's affection differs from that of a human. But I have no interest in that myself. And of course you can question if it is indeed affection at all and not just being conditioned to react X way to X. But you may as well question whether a human's affection is affection at all and how you define affection in the first place and is this keyboard really real and blah. ;-P



Re: damn sleep dep

[identity profile] darkeryet.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 12:06 pm (UTC)(link)
*philosopher*

Re:

[identity profile] ex-jenniepan481.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 02:11 pm (UTC)(link)
That poor cat! what a stupid woman! I hope she is reincarnated as a mouse!!!

Re:

[identity profile] ex-jenniepan481.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 04:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks,It is all I could come up with...it just angered me so much that some one would call themselves "wiccan" and then treat a cat like that.

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 03:50 pm (UTC)(link)
My mother swears to me that my grandmothers cat almost killed me when i was a baby by sitting on my chest and putting much of its head in my mouth.

For whatever reason, i beleived it without question. I don't know that the cats "intention" as to cause harm; my cats climb on my chest while I'm sleeping now...

[identity profile] darkeryet.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 04:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Guess I can now say that I know someone who possibly came close to being murdered by a cat, then. Hehe.

Re:

[identity profile] everythingtold.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 08:47 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think domestic animals usually WANT to harm their owners or the kids. Well... I've heard of cases where "jealous" dogs harm little kids but usually the story is that no one was watching while little junior pulled doggie's tale. (Um... remember, Nate and I got rid of Casper (Nate's dog) because of Anthony).

As for your case? If that happened, then I'm betting kitty was checking you out. Kitties probably don't go, "hey, I weigh about as much as this baby does. Maybe sitting on his/her chest/face wll HURT the child." because I don't think kitties understand that. So if an animal suffocated a baby it was probably by accident.

Re:

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
That sounds reasonable to me. I mean, who'd want to murder ME? I'm great...

[identity profile] uterdic.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 01:12 pm (UTC)(link)
It is an urban legend. Wednes and I go back and forth opn this a lot

Apparantly, they will climb onto your head while you are sleeping, and cover your mouth. Babies suffocate. I've never heard of of it really happening, except to Wednes. So I've been looking around a little bit. Here's what I've found

"(10 commandments of cat owners) 8. Thou shalt not be under the false impression that your cat will suffocate your baby. Even if your cat is a little jealous, it is not malevolent. If the cat doesn't like the baby, it will avoid the baby. Do not believe the old wives' tales that your cat will "steal the baby's breath." Many cats begin sleeping with children when the children are quite young and enjoy serving as a source of comfort to the child for years."

"Cats Will Not Suck the Breath Out of Babies
An old wives' tale has promoted the misconception that cats will smother a baby if allowed to sleep in the crib. This was probably created in response to the fact that cats seek out warm, comfortable places and like to curl up to you—or children—at night. In addition, cats were often blamed as culprits before people knew about the condition of sleep apnea or sudden infant death syndrom (SIDS).

The commonsense response to this myth is to prevent kitty from access to the baby's room for the sake of cleanliness and quiet. If you would like to keep the nursery door open, simply install an inexpensive screen door, and leave the wooden door open. Not only does this provide air circulation, it allow parents to hear baby, while at the same time keeping pets out of the nursery. "

"Cats love warmth, particularly body heat. They will often curl up in a person's lap or lay next to a person while they sleep to be near that body heat. If given the chance, they will also crawl into a baby's crib and curl up next to the sleeping baby. Unfortunately, because babies are small and do not have the ability to push the cat away, this can lead to their being suffocated by the cat. Long ago when people were far more influenced by superstition, cats were believed to be agents of the devil; when a people saw a cat cuddling up to their baby, they believed that the cat was intentionally trying to suffocate the baby, or "steal its breath"."


So it looks like it can happen, as the cats like getting by warm things, but it also sounds very uncommon, and unintentional.

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 03:52 pm (UTC)(link)
have you ever noticed how curious the cats are when S visits...and Anthony before that?

I am not sure that cats "try" to kill babies, since i dont' think they feel hate any more than they expereince love.

Re:

[identity profile] uterdic.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 04:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Well that's why i agreed that it has happened, but Nolan is just as interested in S as the cats are. Just as interested as when anyone new comes over. I know the cats hide a lot of the time, but when they are ready, they are very interested in what's going on. I'm not saying you're full of poop, but I don't think it's that common an issue.

It's also possible that a baby could choke themselves between the crib bars. Doesn't happen very often, and so long as you take the regular precautions, it's very unlikely to happen. Similarly, though training cats is very difficult, you can take measures to keep them away from a baby. Like if it's acting like it may cuddle up to the baby in the crib, you can encourage (in a non-violent way) the cat to not go in there. Fear of God is the simple explanation. If they know they will be punished for going somewhere, they will not go there. Even your cats, after some work.

Re:

[identity profile] absinthofheart.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 04:34 pm (UTC)(link)
You are right that cats love to cuddle babies because babies are human furnaces that generate way more bodyheat than adults. But cats are also very attracted to the odor of milk on a baby's breath. Cats have been known to stand on a baby's chest and lick their faces and mouths for the dried milk. Unfortunatly, babies cannot push cats away, and will slowly suffocate from the weight of the feline compressing it's lungs. It happens. We do not allow bailey to go into the baby's room. She is also not allowed in the car seat, or the playpen. I am no longer worried about the suffocation thing, but the baby now likes to try to chew on the cat and I don't want that, especially since her sinuses can't handle the fur at such a close proximity.

Re:

[identity profile] uterdic.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for that. That's the best thing I've read concerning this topic.

now, this is all i'm going to think from now on:

Damn! Yaw baby gots a hot head!!

[identity profile] everythingtold.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. Totally. It's probably happened (suffocating accidently) b/c kittie probably weighs as much as baby (some cases anyway) and baby cannot move or push kitty away. That scared me too. We kept Nate's parents' cats out of the baby room. Casper (doggie) was too interested in Anthony too. Wednes' cats were interested in Anthony when he was a newborn but I think it was b/c he was new... maybe it was the milk too. But still, I think it's a realistic (although improbable fear).

Re:

[identity profile] absinthofheart.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 10:54 pm (UTC)(link)
My mom was telling me that she knew someone who had a baby die because a cat fell asleep on top of it and the child suffocated. It is a scary notion, and my mom (being the hypochondriac over worrier that she is) filled my ears full of issues like this all during my pregnancy. It was bothersome and unsettling. She only wanted the baby to be safe, but pregnant women are prone to nightmares and her 'helpful advice' only added to them. The cats were a huge concern for me, and to tell the truth, that was one of the reasons we shipped them over to my mom's for fostering. It was a good idea I've discovered, since Asti is nervous and prone to hissing and swatting around the baby, and Morgan constantly sleeps in the portable crib my mom bought for use when she babysits.

Re:

[identity profile] absinthofheart.livejournal.com 2004-02-04 11:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think they feel love or hate, really. But I do think jealousy is an animal trait. You saw how crazy Nolan got whenever Ryan held S. My mom's dog is the same way when my dad is paying attention to the baby. Asti (our male cat) also tries to get between us and the baby. I think it has something to do with the animal thinking it's loosing it's status in the pack. Like maybe it thinks it's alpha (or beta or whichever) status is being threatened, and the animal is not happy about it and so tries to distract it's masters.